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December 2015

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Subject:
From:
Jayendra Shankar <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
The Pharmaceutical Microbiology Forum Email List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 3 Dec 2015 20:01:39 +0000
Content-Type:
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Greg and Mitchell,
Thanks for your explanation and Greg, thanks also for the poster.
Jay

On 30 November 2015 at 19:23, Moats, Mitchell K <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Once an isolate is recovered (isolated) on relatively rich media the first
> time, the strain would have a smorgasbord of nutrient available and would
> no longer be on the 'environmental' diet, and / or subjected to stress due
> to exposure to disinfectants, etc...and would not necessarily mutate in a
> matter of a few days.
>
> As I interpret the 5 passage rule, the isolate, once transferred up to 5
> times on conventional media, would theoretically begin to lose the
> conditioned ability to survive on limited nutrients (and resist stress).
> The basis for the use or R2A agar is to not provide such an overwhelming
> amount of nutrients and thus a better opportunity to recover organisms in
> the first isolation, that are accustomed to limited nutrients.  A colony
> might appear more mucoid on the first isolation and begin to appear less
> mucoid a few transfers later.
>
> Regards,
> Mitchell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Pharmaceutical Microbiology Forum Email List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jayendra Shankar
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 9:04 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PMFLIST] 5 Passage Rule
>
> just to stir things up: continuing with your example Mitchell, would that
> not have occurred by the time the organism has been cultivated in a
> relatively rich media the first time it was isolated. It should have used
> the nutrients provided thus changed its expression and metabolic 'profile',
> relative to when in was surviving in water, in order to have been isolated
> in the first place. the five passages are then moot?!
> regards
> Jay
>
> On 25 November 2015 at 17:51, Moats, Mitchell K <
> [log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Tony,
> >
> > While I don’t disagree with your comments, I interpret the 5 passage
> > rule to reflect certain adaptive characteristics that would not
> > necessarily be reflected in the genetic profile (mutation) of an isolate.
> >
> > For example, if an isolate is recovered from a water system and has
> > adapted to survival on limited nutrients and/or as part of a biofilm,
> > or stressed due to resistance to disinfection practices, and has
> > adapted to conditions for survival, isolates such as this would lose
> > some of these adaptive characteristics following transfer to media and
> incubation.
> >
> > I would tend to draw a comparison to the situation when astronauts are
> > in space for extended periods, and their bone structure and muscle
> > framework begin to deteriorate due to a no gravity environment, while
> > the astronaut’s DNA would not change.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mitchell
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Pharmaceutical Microbiology Forum Email List [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tony Cundell
> > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 9:40 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [PMFLIST] 5 Passage Rule
> >
> > In my opinion the 5 passage rule is not scientifically based.
> >
> > The mutation rate for different bacteria are in the published
> > literature and are quite low even through the bacterial populations
> > are high, with pure cultures there is no lateral transfer of genetic
> > material from other bacteria and with the use of standard media little
> > selective pressure for natural selection.
> >
> > --
> > Tony Cundell, Ph. D.
> > Consulting Microbiologist
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > Phone: 914 725-3947
> > Cell: 914 841-0074
> >
> > ------------------
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > =================================
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> > supported by our sponsors as a service to the scientific community.
> >
> > Please take a second to visit our sponsors' web sites and say thank
> > you for their support of this service.
> >
> > Veltek Associates, Inc - http://www.sterile.com
> >
> > Accugen Laboratories - http://accugenlabs.com
> >
> > Associates of Cape Cod, Inc. - http://www.acciusa.com/
> >
> > Analytical Research Labs - http://arlok.com/
> >
> > Life Technologies - http://www.lifetechnologies.com/PharmaAnalytics
> >
> > Charles River-Endosafe and Accugenix - http://www.criver.com/emd
> >
> > American Type Culture Collection - http://www.atcc.org
> >
> > ATS Labs - http://www.ats-labs.com
> >
> > BD Diagnostic Systems - http://www.bd.com/ds/
> >
> > Biolog - http://www.biolog.com
> >
> > EMD Millipore -  http://www.emdmillipore.com/biomonitoring
> >
> > Microbiologics, Inc. - http://www.microbiologics.com
> >
> > Microtest Laboratories, Inc. - http://www.microtestlabs.com
> >
> > Nelson Labs - http://www.nelsonlabs.com
> >
> > Steris - http://www.sterislifesciences.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > =================================
> > The nature of this service is to provide a medium for communication.
> > The specific statements and endorsements of individuals participating
> > in the discussions are not necessarily those of The Microbiology
> > Network, Inc., the PMF, or the sponsors of the list.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jayendra Shankar
> 34, Cedar Gardens
> Newton le Willows, St. Helens
> Merseyside, WA12 8AD
> + 44 (0)7852 958 937
>
> ------------------
> The PMFList (http://microbiologynetwork.com/pmflist.asp) is operated from
> The Microbiology Network (http://microbiologynetwork.com) and supported by
> our sponsors as a service to the scientific community.
>
> Please take a second to visit our sponsors' web sites and say thank you
> for their support of this service.
>
> Veltek Associates, Inc - http://www.sterile.com
>
> Accugen Laboratories - http://accugenlabs.com
>
> Associates of Cape Cod, Inc. - http://www.acciusa.com/
>
> Analytical Research Labs - http://arlok.com/
>
> Life Technologies - http://www.lifetechnologies.com/PharmaAnalytics
>
> Charles River-Endosafe and Accugenix - http://www.criver.com/emd
>
> American Type Culture Collection - http://www.atcc.org
>
> ATS Labs - http://www.ats-labs.com
>
> BD Diagnostic Systems - http://www.bd.com/ds/
>
> Biolog - http://www.biolog.com
>
> EMD Millipore -  http://www.emdmillipore.com/biomonitoring
>
> Microbiologics, Inc. - http://www.microbiologics.com
>
> Microtest Laboratories, Inc. - http://www.microtestlabs.com
>
> Nelson Labs - http://www.nelsonlabs.com
>
> Steris - http://www.sterislifesciences.com/
>
>
>
> =================================
> The nature of this service is to provide a medium for communication.  The
> specific statements and endorsements of individuals participating in the
> discussions are not necessarily those of The Microbiology Network, Inc.,
> the PMF, or the sponsors of the list.
> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If
> you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying
> to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the
> content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance
> of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the
> binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual
> signature that is included in any attachment.
>
> ------------------
> The PMFList (http://microbiologynetwork.com/pmflist.asp) is operated from
> The Microbiology Network (http://microbiologynetwork.com) and supported by
> our sponsors as a service to the scientific community.
>
> Please take a second to visit our sponsors' web sites and say thank you
> for their support of this service.
>
> Veltek Associates, Inc - http://www.sterile.com
>
> Accugen Laboratories - http://accugenlabs.com
>
> Associates of Cape Cod, Inc. - http://www.acciusa.com/
>
> Analytical Research Labs - http://arlok.com/
>
> Life Technologies - http://www.lifetechnologies.com/PharmaAnalytics
>
> Charles River-Endosafe and Accugenix - http://www.criver.com/emd
>
> American Type Culture Collection - http://www.atcc.org
>
> ATS Labs - http://www.ats-labs.com
>
> BD Diagnostic Systems - http://www.bd.com/ds/
>
> Biolog - http://www.biolog.com
>
> EMD Millipore -  http://www.emdmillipore.com/biomonitoring
>
> Microbiologics, Inc. - http://www.microbiologics.com
>
> Microtest Laboratories, Inc. - http://www.microtestlabs.com
>
> Nelson Labs - http://www.nelsonlabs.com
>
> Steris - http://www.sterislifesciences.com/
>
>
>
> =================================
> The nature of this service is to provide a medium for communication.  The
> specific statements and endorsements of individuals participating in the
> discussions are not necessarily those of The Microbiology Network, Inc.,
> the PMF, or the sponsors of the list.
>



-- 
Jayendra Shankar
34, Cedar Gardens
Newton le Willows, St. Helens
Merseyside, WA12 8AD
+ 44 (0)7852 958 937

------------------
The PMFList (http://microbiologynetwork.com/pmflist.asp) is operated from
The Microbiology Network (http://microbiologynetwork.com) and supported by
our sponsors as a service to the scientific community.

Please take a second to visit our sponsors' web sites and say thank you for their support of this service.

Veltek Associates, Inc - http://www.sterile.com

Accugen Laboratories - http://accugenlabs.com

Associates of Cape Cod, Inc. - http://www.acciusa.com/

Analytical Research Labs - http://arlok.com/

Life Technologies - http://www.lifetechnologies.com/PharmaAnalytics

Charles River-Endosafe and Accugenix - http://www.criver.com/emd

American Type Culture Collection - http://www.atcc.org

ATS Labs - http://www.ats-labs.com

BD Diagnostic Systems - http://www.bd.com/ds/

Biolog - http://www.biolog.com

EMD Millipore -  http://www.emdmillipore.com/biomonitoring

Microbiologics, Inc. - http://www.microbiologics.com

Microtest Laboratories, Inc. - http://www.microtestlabs.com

Nelson Labs - http://www.nelsonlabs.com

Steris - http://www.sterislifesciences.com/



=================================
The nature of this service is to provide a medium for communication.  The specific statements and endorsements of individuals participating in the discussions are not necessarily those of The Microbiology Network, Inc., the PMF, or the sponsors of the list.

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